From: "Tim" <tjp314@pacbell.net>

Date: April 21, 2005 9:49:14 AM MDT

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: New to Group, shopping for a Firewire camera



Milton:


Wow!  There's a ton of useful information in there!  Thanks!


Yesterday, I did a search on ebay for some of the cameras listed on your website (before 

seeing this message).  There were 3 iBots and 1 ADS Pyro camera up for bid.  One would, 

of course, be taking a chance on used equipment, but some of the bid prices were pretty 

low.  


I'm thinking about maybe bidding on one, versus buying the board camera version of the 

Fire-i and putting it in a project box.


-Tim.


--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Milton Aupperle <milton@o...> wrote:

Hi Tim and Ernest;


Here's my diatribe on cameras, pricing and other tidbits.


 iRez, Orange Micro and ADS Pyro pretty much folded up shop as soon as  

Apple's iSight was released (you can't compete against Apple on the Mac  

- you'll get your gonads removed financially). The iSight won't work  

without you destroying it (it has auto focus so your need to wreck that  

to expose the CCD) and it won't work with Astro IIDC because it doesn't  

support bayer formats or any of the firmware modifications I make to  

provide 1 second exposures.


The only inexpensive Firewire cameras in production (last time I talked  

to them anyhow) are Unibrain's Fire I Color or Monochrome board level  

cameras at:


http://www.unibrain.com/1394_products/fire-i_board_cam/fire- 

i_board_camera.htm


and for pricing check out


http://www.1394store.com/eshop/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=5


They reportedly can't get any more of the plastic cases, so your pretty  

much out of luck on that end. However it isn't that taxing to buy a  

cheap plastic electronic project box or even a soup can (the cameras  

are 2.2" x 2.2" x 1" high) and stick it in their so the electronics  

doesn't get touched by fingers or rain or snow.


You have two main options to attach the camera to your scope.


Firstly if your cheap, good with epoxy, have a a sharp knife and have  

access to a Home Hardware etc. place with plastic plumbing parts, you  

can make your own 1.25" inch adapter for the cameras to fit on an the  

scope. Also empty 35 mm plastic film canisters fit precisely into a  

1.25" eyepiece too. Personally, I prefer attaching the a Pentax M-42  

Screw mount lens cap to the camera's mount so I can use cheap a wide  

variety of things (50,100,200 mm SLR screw mount lenses, M42- 1.25"  

adapter etc.) to it.


Secondly, the lens mount on the Unibrain  cameras uses a standard  

M12-0.5mm thread and a $20 screw in 1.25" adapter ( UWAS-F  or  UWAL-F  

)  can be bought from WebCaddy at:


http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/ProductList.asp?cat=adapter


If your were using a USB web camera previously, then you may already  

have the above adapter.


I'll get a detailed list on other camera options when I get time to  

write up the spec sheet for the Version 2.0 of Astro IIDC in a week or  

so, but basically any FireWire camera that support monochrome or bayer  

color (8 or 16 bit per pixel), supports format 0,1 or 2 of the IIDC  

specifcation (frame rates up to 60 fps and size of video from 640x480  

to 1600x1200 pixels) and supports the absolute exposure register  

(allowing exposure times to 20+ minutes) will work. This includes Sony,  

Basler, Optonics, Marlin, Point Grey Research, PixeLink, The Imaging  

Source, Allied Technology etc. etc.. Most of these cameras start at  

about $330 USD and go up from their into the $$$$ range.


A full list of existing FireWire cameras with pricing is available here:


http://www.tele.ucl.ac.be/PEOPLE/DOUXCHAMPS/ieee1394/cameras/


HTH..


PS:

I would really like a "Phantom V9 from Visible Solutions" to image the  

moon at 1600x1200 pixels at 1000 frames per second, but $84,000USD is a  

bit "much" - even for Lunar/ planetary imaging.


Milton J. Aupperle

President

ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.

Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5

1-(403)-229-9456

milton@o...

www.outcastsoft.com



On 20-Apr-05, at 5:34 PM, Ernest Wright wrote:


I too am ready to buy a FW camera compatible with Milton's program.  

The wonderful images posted here and elsewhere, Neale's book and other  

discussions have convinced me that a FW camera and Astro_IIDC is the  

way to go. I've been searching for a retail source in the States for  

either the Orange Micro iBot or the FireI webcams but they are just  

not available. If we have a discussion about which one to buy how  

about mentioning where to buy as well?


BTW Alan (if you are reading) your picture of Saturn recently posted  

is stunning! There is no dearth of inspiration available here to  

would-be astrophotographers. Thank you for sharing it. And yours as  

well Milton.


I have recently obtained the Mac driver for my Meade LPI and have had  

some moderate success imaging with it. I discovered that it works fine  

from within EquinoX. I feel as though I'm still pretty low on the  

learning curve but having fun at it.


Clear skies,


Ernest


On Apr 20, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Tim wrote:



Okay, Neale's article on Cloudynights got me here (roundabout  

manner).


I'd be interested in hearing opinions on the various Astro  

IIDC-compatible webcams

available.


Which are most sensitive to low light?


Which have the best color rendition (or does it matter, considering  

Astro IIDC processes

the color differently)?


Which cameras are the most readily adaptable for use with a  

telescope?


What are typical prices for the different cameras?


planetarily,

-Tim.