From: Milton Aupperle <milton@outcastsoft.com>

Date: April 21, 2005 10:04:14 AM MDT

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Astro_IIDC] Re: New to Group, shopping for a Firewire camera


Hi Tim;


No problem - I keep forgetting to add the Unibrain where to purchase links to the Astro IIDC web site.


The only potential limitation with buying a used camera (beyond what you mentioned) is that those iBots or the ADS Pyro may use an earlier version of the CCD - which is about 30% less sensitive than the current generation of CCD' s in the Unibrain and later model iBot's. There is no easy way (software or hardware) to determine which CCD the cameras have on them either and the hardware way requires a 200 power microscope (or so I'm told).


But if the price is attractive, go for it.


Also I posted another(huge)  Lunar image (Luna_20050419_MJA.jpg ) into the Lunar folder yesterday.


HTH..


Milton J. Aupperle

President

ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.

Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5

1-(403)-229-9456

milton@outcastsoft.com

www.outcastsoft.com



On 21-Apr-05, at 9:49 AM, Tim wrote:




Milton:


Wow!  There's a ton of useful information in there!  Thanks!


Yesterday, I did a search on ebay for some of the cameras listed on your website (before

seeing this message).  There were 3 iBots and 1 ADS Pyro camera up for bid.  One would,

of course, be taking a chance on used equipment, but some of the bid prices were pretty

low.


I'm thinking about maybe bidding on one, versus buying the board camera version of the

Fire-i and putting it in a project box.


-Tim.


--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Milton Aupperle <milton@o...> wrote:

Hi Tim and Ernest;


Here's my diatribe on cameras, pricing and other tidbits.


 iRez, Orange Micro and ADS Pyro pretty much folded up shop as soon as

Apple's iSight was released (you can't compete against Apple on the Mac

- you'll get your gonads removed financially). The iSight won't work

without you destroying it (it has auto focus so your need to wreck that

to expose the CCD) and it won't work with Astro IIDC because it doesn't

support bayer formats or any of the firmware modifications I make to

provide 1 second exposures.


The only inexpensive Firewire cameras in production (last time I talked

to them anyhow) are Unibrain's Fire I Color or Monochrome board level

cameras at:


http://www.unibrain.com/1394_products/fire-i_board_cam/fire-

i_board_camera.htm


and for pricing check out


http://www.1394store.com/eshop/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=5


They reportedly can't get any more of the plastic cases, so your pretty

much out of luck on that end. However it isn't that taxing to buy a

cheap plastic electronic project box or even a soup can (the cameras

are 2.2" x 2.2" x 1" high) and stick it in their so the electronics

doesn't get touched by fingers or rain or snow.


You have two main options to attach the camera to your scope.


Firstly if your cheap, good with epoxy, have a a sharp knife and have

access to a Home Hardware etc. place with plastic plumbing parts, you

can make your own 1.25" inch adapter for the cameras to fit on an the

scope. Also empty 35 mm plastic film canisters fit precisely into a

1.25" eyepiece too. Personally, I prefer attaching the a Pentax M-42

Screw mount lens cap to the camera's mount so I can use cheap a wide

variety of things (50,100,200 mm SLR screw mount lenses, M42- 1.25"

adapter etc.) to it.


Secondly, the lens mount on the Unibrain  cameras uses a standard

M12-0.5mm thread and a $20 screw in 1.25" adapter ( UWAS-F  or  UWAL-F

)  can be bought from WebCaddy at:


http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/ProductList.asp?cat=adapter


If your were using a USB web camera previously, then you may already

have the above adapter.


I'll get a detailed list on other camera options when I get time to

write up the spec sheet for the Version 2.0 of Astro IIDC in a week or

so, but basically any FireWire camera that support monochrome or bayer

color (8 or 16 bit per pixel), supports format 0,1 or 2 of the IIDC

specifcation (frame rates up to 60 fps and size of video from 640x480

to 1600x1200 pixels) and supports the absolute exposure register

(allowing exposure times to 20+ minutes) will work. This includes Sony,

Basler, Optonics, Marlin, Point Grey Research, PixeLink, The Imaging

Source, Allied Technology etc. etc.. Most of these cameras start at

about $330 USD and go up from their into the $$$$ range.


A full list of existing FireWire cameras with pricing is available here:


http://www.tele.ucl.ac.be/PEOPLE/DOUXCHAMPS/ieee1394/cameras/


HTH..


PS:

I would really like a "Phantom V9 from Visible Solutions" to image the

moon at 1600x1200 pixels at 1000 frames per second, but $84,000USD is a

bit "much" - even for Lunar/ planetary imaging.


Milton J. Aupperle

President

ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.

Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5

1-(403)-229-9456

milton@o...

www.outcastsoft.com



On 20-Apr-05, at 5:34 PM, Ernest Wright wrote:


I too am ready to buy a FW camera compatible with Milton's program.

The wonderful images posted here and elsewhere, Neale's book and other

discussions have convinced me that a FW camera and Astro_IIDC is the

way to go. I've been searching for a retail source in the States for

either the Orange Micro iBot or the FireI webcams but they are just

not available. If we have a discussion about which one to buy how

about mentioning where to buy as well?


BTW Alan (if you are reading) your picture of Saturn recently posted

is stunning! There is no dearth of inspiration available here to

would-be astrophotographers. Thank you for sharing it. And yours as

well Milton.


I have recently obtained the Mac driver for my Meade LPI and have had

some moderate success imaging with it. I discovered that it works fine

from within EquinoX. I feel as though I'm still pretty low on the

learning curve but having fun at it.


Clear skies,


Ernest


On Apr 20, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Tim wrote:



Okay, Neale's article on Cloudynights got me here (roundabout

manner).


I'd be interested in hearing opinions on the various Astro

IIDC-compatible webcams

available.


Which are most sensitive to low light?


Which have the best color rendition (or does it matter, considering

Astro IIDC processes

the color differently)?


Which cameras are the most readily adaptable for use with a

telescope?


What are typical prices for the different cameras?


planetarily,

-Tim.









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