From: "Tim" <tjp314@pacbell.net>
Date: April 21, 2005 10:52:00 AM MDT
To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: New to Group, shopping for a Firewire camera
Milton:
More useful information! Considering the hassle of finding that out, and considering I
already have 2 good USB webcams to fiddle with, I don't think $105 for a new unibrain is a
bad deal, versus paying shipping and a few bucks to get yet another camera in the realm
of the USB 3Com and ToUcam I already have. (I definitely like the user settings of the
3Com better than the ToUcam, but the ToUcam renders color better, and it's faster).
Sadly, I have an iSight that I bought for use at work (so at least it didn't set me back, toys-
wise). I'm impressed with the video quality, and might still try it out on my scope, but I'd
have to make an adapter and shoot afocally with it. Hopefully, it won't keep trying to
refocus while I do that. ;o)
I really like the idea of firewire to minimize the compression on the individual frames. The
good thing about the ToUcam is that it can easily acquire a 2-minute video with 1200
frames for stacking. The bad news is that I find that MOST of those are needed to really
build a processable image that doesn't enhance the noise.
-Tim.
--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Milton Aupperle <milton@o...> wrote:
Hi Tim;
No problem - I keep forgetting to add the Unibrain where to purchase
links to the Astro IIDC web site.
The only potential limitation with buying a used camera (beyond what
you mentioned) is that those iBots or the ADS Pyro may use an earlier
version of the CCD - which is about 30% less sensitive than the current
generation of CCD' s in the Unibrain and later model iBot's. There is
no easy way (software or hardware) to determine which CCD the cameras
have on them either and the hardware way requires a 200 power
microscope (or so I'm told).
But if the price is attractive, go for it.
Also I posted another(huge) Lunar image (Luna_20050419_MJA.jpg ) into
the Lunar folder yesterday.
HTH..
Milton J. Aupperle
President
ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting
Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist
#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.
Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5
1-(403)-229-9456
milton@o...
www.outcastsoft.com
On 21-Apr-05, at 9:49 AM, Tim wrote:
Milton:
Wow! There's a ton of useful information in there! Thanks!
Yesterday, I did a search on ebay for some of the cameras listed on
your website (before
seeing this message). There were 3 iBots and 1 ADS Pyro camera up for
bid. One would,
of course, be taking a chance on used equipment, but some of the bid
prices were pretty
low.
I'm thinking about maybe bidding on one, versus buying the board
camera version of the
Fire-i and putting it in a project box.
-Tim.
--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Milton Aupperle <milton@o...> wrote:
Hi Tim and Ernest;
Here's my diatribe on cameras, pricing and other tidbits.
iRez, Orange Micro and ADS Pyro pretty much folded up shop as soon
as
Apple's iSight was released (you can't compete against Apple on the
Mac
- you'll get your gonads removed financially). The iSight won't work
without you destroying it (it has auto focus so your need to wreck
that
to expose the CCD) and it won't work with Astro IIDC because it
doesn't
support bayer formats or any of the firmware modifications I make to
provide 1 second exposures.
The only inexpensive Firewire cameras in production (last time I
talked
to them anyhow) are Unibrain's Fire I Color or Monochrome board level
cameras at:
http://www.unibrain.com/1394_products/fire-i_board_cam/fire-
i_board_camera.htm
and for pricing check out
http://www.1394store.com/eshop/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=5
They reportedly can't get any more of the plastic cases, so your
pretty
much out of luck on that end. However it isn't that taxing to buy a
cheap plastic electronic project box or even a soup can (the cameras
are 2.2" x 2.2" x 1" high) and stick it in their so the electronics
doesn't get touched by fingers or rain or snow.
You have two main options to attach the camera to your scope.
Firstly if your cheap, good with epoxy, have a a sharp knife and have
access to a Home Hardware etc. place with plastic plumbing parts, you
can make your own 1.25" inch adapter for the cameras to fit on an the
scope. Also empty 35 mm plastic film canisters fit precisely into a
1.25" eyepiece too. Personally, I prefer attaching the a Pentax M-42
Screw mount lens cap to the camera's mount so I can use cheap a wide
variety of things (50,100,200 mm SLR screw mount lenses, M42- 1.25"
adapter etc.) to it.
Secondly, the lens mount on the Unibrain cameras uses a standard
M12-0.5mm thread and a $20 screw in 1.25" adapter ( UWAS-F or UWAL-F
) can be bought from WebCaddy at:
http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/ProductList.asp?cat=adapter
If your were using a USB web camera previously, then you may already
have the above adapter.
I'll get a detailed list on other camera options when I get time to
write up the spec sheet for the Version 2.0 of Astro IIDC in a week or
so, but basically any FireWire camera that support monochrome or bayer
color (8 or 16 bit per pixel), supports format 0,1 or 2 of the IIDC
specifcation (frame rates up to 60 fps and size of video from 640x480
to 1600x1200 pixels) and supports the absolute exposure register
(allowing exposure times to 20+ minutes) will work. This includes
Sony,
Basler, Optonics, Marlin, Point Grey Research, PixeLink, The Imaging
Source, Allied Technology etc. etc.. Most of these cameras start at
about $330 USD and go up from their into the $$$$ range.
A full list of existing FireWire cameras with pricing is available
here:
http://www.tele.ucl.ac.be/PEOPLE/DOUXCHAMPS/ieee1394/cameras/
HTH..
PS:
I would really like a "Phantom V9 from Visible Solutions" to image the
moon at 1600x1200 pixels at 1000 frames per second, but $84,000USD is
a
bit "much" - even for Lunar/ planetary imaging.
Milton J. Aupperle
President
ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting
Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist
#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.
Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5
1-(403)-229-9456
milton@o...
www.outcastsoft.com
On 20-Apr-05, at 5:34 PM, Ernest Wright wrote:
I too am ready to buy a FW camera compatible with Milton's program.
The wonderful images posted here and elsewhere, Neale's book and
other
discussions have convinced me that a FW camera and Astro_IIDC is the
way to go. I've been searching for a retail source in the States for
either the Orange Micro iBot or the FireI webcams but they are just
not available. If we have a discussion about which one to buy how
about mentioning where to buy as well?
BTW Alan (if you are reading) your picture of Saturn recently posted
is stunning! There is no dearth of inspiration available here to
would-be astrophotographers. Thank you for sharing it. And yours as
well Milton.
I have recently obtained the Mac driver for my Meade LPI and have had
some moderate success imaging with it. I discovered that it works
fine
from within EquinoX. I feel as though I'm still pretty low on the
learning curve but having fun at it.
Clear skies,
Ernest
On Apr 20, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Tim wrote:
Okay, Neale's article on Cloudynights got me here (roundabout
manner).
I'd be interested in hearing opinions on the various Astro
IIDC-compatible webcams
available.
Which are most sensitive to low light?
Which have the best color rendition (or does it matter, considering
Astro IIDC processes
the color differently)?
Which cameras are the most readily adaptable for use with a
telescope?
What are typical prices for the different cameras?
planetarily,
-Tim.
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