From: Alan Friedman <alan@greatarrow.com>

Date: April 21, 2005 12:47:46 PM MDT

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Astro_IIDC] Re: New to Group, shopping for a Firewire camera


Hi all -


Milton - Great summary and a really lovely lunar mosaic!


The Unibrain fire-i is a good performer for the money and a great way to get your feet wet with firewire webcam imaging without getting soaked! Making a housing is fun - I did mine out of an altoids tin. 


If you live anywhere near the jet stream, the advantage of downloading uncompressed frames at 30fps cannot be overstated. The pockets of good seeing come and go. At 30fps when they come you will have a nice volume of good frames to work with. 


I wish I had 18 gigs of free hard drive space!!


Alan



On Apr 21, 2005, at 12:04 PM, Milton Aupperle wrote:


Hi Tim;


No problem - I keep forgetting to add the Unibrain where to purchase 

links to the Astro IIDC web site.


The only potential limitation with buying a used camera (beyond what 

you mentioned) is that those iBots or the ADS Pyro may use an earlier 

version of the CCD - which is about 30% less sensitive than the current 

generation of CCD' s in the Unibrain and later model iBot's. There is 

no easy way (software or hardware) to determine which CCD the cameras

have on them either and the hardware way requires a 200 power 

microscope (or so I'm told).


But if the price is attractive, go for it.


Also I posted another(huge)  Lunar image (Luna_20050419_MJA.jpg ) into 

the Lunar folder yesterday.


HTH..


Milton J. Aupperle

President

ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.

Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5

1-(403)-229-9456

milton@outcastsoft.com

www.outcastsoft.com



On 21-Apr-05, at 9:49 AM, Tim wrote:


>

>

> Milton:

>

> Wow!  There's a ton of useful information in there!  Thanks!

>

> Yesterday, I did a search on ebay for some of the cameras listed on 

> your website (before

> seeing this message).  There were 3 iBots and 1 ADS Pyro camera up for 

> bid.  One would,

> of course, be taking a chance on used equipment, but some of the bid 

> prices were pretty

> low.

>

> I'm thinking about maybe bidding on one, versus buying the board 

> camera version of the

> Fire-i and putting it in a project box.

>

> -Tim.

>

> --- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Milton Aupperle <milton@o...> wrote:

>> Hi Tim and Ernest;

>>

>> Here's my diatribe on cameras, pricing and other tidbits.

>>

>>   iRez, Orange Micro and ADS Pyro pretty much folded up shop as soon 

>> as

>> Apple's iSight was released (you can't compete against Apple on the 

>> Mac

>> - you'll get your gonads removed financially). The iSight won't work

>> without you destroying it (it has auto focus so your need to wreck 

>> that

>> to expose the CCD) and it won't work with Astro IIDC because it 

>> doesn't

>> support bayer formats or any of the firmware modifications I make to

>> provide 1 second exposures.

>>

>> The only inexpensive Firewire cameras in production (last time I 

>> talked

>> to them anyhow) are Unibrain's Fire I Color or Monochrome board level

>> cameras at:

>>

>> http://www.unibrain.com/1394_products/fire-i_board_cam/fire-

>> i_board_camera.htm

>>

>> and for pricing check out

>>

>> http://www.1394store.com/eshop/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=5

>>

>> They reportedly can't get any more of the plastic cases, so your 

>> pretty

>> much out of luck on that end. However it isn't that taxing to buy a

>> cheap plastic electronic project box or even a soup can (the cameras

>> are 2.2" x 2.2" x 1" high) and stick it in their so the electronics

>> doesn't get touched by fingers or rain or snow.

>>

>> You have two main options to attach the camera to your scope.

>>

>> Firstly if your cheap, good with epoxy, have a a sharp knife and have

>> access to a Home Hardware etc. place with plastic plumbing parts, you

>> can make your own 1.25" inch adapter for the cameras to fit on an the

>> scope. Also empty 35 mm plastic film canisters fit precisely into a

>> 1.25" eyepiece too. Personally, I prefer attaching the a Pentax M-42

>> Screw mount lens cap to the camera's mount so I can use cheap a wide

>> variety of things (50,100,200 mm SLR screw mount lenses, M42- 1.25"

>> adapter etc.) to it.

>>

>> Secondly, the lens mount on the Unibrain  cameras uses a standard

>> M12-0.5mm thread and a $20 screw in 1.25" adapter ( UWAS-F  or  UWAL-F

>> )  can be bought from WebCaddy at:

>>

>> http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/ProductList.asp?cat=adapter

>>

>> If your were using a USB web camera previously, then you may already

>> have the above adapter.

>>

>> I'll get a detailed list on other camera options when I get time to

>> write up the spec sheet for the Version 2.0 of Astro IIDC in a week or

>> so, but basically any FireWire camera that support monochrome or bayer

>> color (8 or 16 bit per pixel), supports format 0,1 or 2 of the IIDC

>> specifcation (frame rates up to 60 fps and size of video from 640x480

>> to 1600x1200 pixels) and supports the absolute exposure register

>> (allowing exposure times to 20+ minutes) will work. This includes 

>> Sony,

>> Basler, Optonics, Marlin, Point Grey Research, PixeLink, The Imaging

>> Source, Allied Technology etc. etc.. Most of these cameras start at

>> about $330 USD and go up from their into the $$$$ range.

>>

>> A full list of existing FireWire cameras with pricing is available 

>> here:

>>

>> http://www.tele.ucl.ac.be/PEOPLE/DOUXCHAMPS/ieee1394/cameras/

>>

>> HTH..

>>

>> PS:

>> I would really like a "Phantom V9 from Visible Solutions" to image the

>> moon at 1600x1200 pixels at 1000 frames per second, but $84,000USD is 

>> a

>> bit "much" - even for Lunar/ planetary imaging.

>>

>> Milton J. Aupperle

>> President

>> ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

>> Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

>> #1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.

>> Calgary Alberta Canada T2R0N5

>> 1-(403)-229-9456

>> milton@o...

>> www.outcastsoft.com

>>

>>

>> On 20-Apr-05, at 5:34 PM, Ernest Wright wrote:

>>

>>> I too am ready to buy a FW camera compatible with Milton's program.

>>> The wonderful images posted here and elsewhere, Neale's book and 

>>> other

>>> discussions have convinced me that a FW camera and Astro_IIDC is the

>>> way to go. I've been searching for a retail source in the States for

>>> either the Orange Micro iBot or the FireI webcams but they are just

>>> not available. If we have a discussion about which one to buy how

>>> about mentioning where to buy as well?

>>>

>>> BTW Alan (if you are reading) your picture of Saturn recently posted

>>> is stunning! There is no dearth of inspiration available here to

>>> would-be astrophotographers. Thank you for sharing it. And yours as

>>> well Milton.

>>>

>>> I have recently obtained the Mac driver for my Meade LPI and have had

>>> some moderate success imaging with it. I discovered that it works 

>>> fine

>>> from within EquinoX. I feel as though I'm still pretty low on the

>>> learning curve but having fun at it.

>>>

>>> Clear skies,

>>>

>>> Ernest

>>>

>>> On Apr 20, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Tim wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>>  Okay, Neale's article on Cloudynights got me here (roundabout

>>>> manner).

>>>>

>>>>  I'd be interested in hearing opinions on the various Astro

>>>> IIDC-compatible webcams

>>>>  available.

>>>>

>>>>  Which are most sensitive to low light?

>>>>

>>>>  Which have the best color rendition (or does it matter, considering

>>>> Astro IIDC processes

>>>>  the color differently)?

>>>>

>>>>  Which cameras are the most readily adaptable for use with a

>>>> telescope?

>>>>

>>>>  What are typical prices for the different cameras?

>>>>

>>>>  planetarily,

>>>>  -Tim.

>>>>

>>>>

>

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