From: "Don Singer" <don@singerspdx.com>

Date: December 5, 2007 5:31:04 PM MST

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Astro IIDC Autoguiding Help!

All:

This is not to be construed as a personal attack in any way...however,

over the limited time I have been monitoring this board, I have

noticed that tech questions get instantly "let's do this offline".

Yes, guiding is very difficult, and I would love to guide with the

software. But, not seeing the give and take between you and Alberto is

frustrating to saythe least. To suggest Alberto report back to the

group only puts more work on his shoulders that just could be avoided

by a lively exchange.

Craig and Doug take it offline when it gets ridiculous....smd, we

learn a ton by all of the questions and exchanges. If you are

overwhelmed, why not have a few experienced moderators help out...that

would be terrific.

Best,

Don

--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Alan Friedman <alan@...> wrote:

Hi Milton,

I'll chime in with a few thoughts on this. I think it is challenging

to moderate a discussion group and I would guess even more so when

the moderator and owner of the product central to the discussion are

the same person. Some company principals that sponsor tech groups

have chosen to ask another group member to moderate. I participate in

the Astro-Physics user group which uses this structure. When the

topic gets out of control, the moderators step in to redirect and

when an issue arises that is clearly in need of one-on-one customer

support, Marj or Roland step in to refer them to private email. It

seems to work out well.

Personally, I monitor a handful of discussion forums (based on the

size and activity of the group) and usually opt to have the posts

forwarded to me as email rather than reading them on the Yahoo

website. I generally read them all and don't find it a hardship to

delete those that are not germane to my interest. I don't find this

group cluttered and enjoy following the questions and the answers.

best wishes,

Alan

On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:52 AM, Milton Aupperle wrote:

Hi Don;

On 5-Dec-07, at 9:13 AM, Don Singer wrote:

All:

Personally, I find this stance nutty.....it stifles group discussion

and learning to the extent that I learn less about using the software

and hardware in this group relative to any other yahoo group I

belong to.

I asked Alberto about 25 questions so that I can get a feel for

what his issues are. I don't see any need to cluttering up the list

with that sort of back and forth traffic. And if it's a bug it gets

fixed and if its something else that people need to know, then I

get back to the group with a synopsis of what is to be avoided.

On any other group, be it Stark Labs or Maxim, you learn a lot from

the technical give and take between Craig Stark or Doug George with

their user base.

I see, so I have contributed nothing to the group then?

And, it leads to increased membership and increased

discussion....notice that the membership on this group has been

stagnant, and I am sure this is one of the reasons.

Actually, the group has grown by 20% this year, again. And that is

despite the fact that I had to implement the "approval" process to

join to keep the spammers out. I asked the group for your feed back

on this too if you recall.

Why belong if the

author of the program declines, or worse yet, refuses to give

constructive feedback to the group rather than the individual?

Constructive feedback on what ? We don't even know what the problem

is yet other than "it loops"? It could be turbulence with a low

pixel setting, it could be uneven balancing of the mount (is he

doing OAG or Guide Scope - we don't know), it could be not filling

in the declination filed correctly, it could An Apple Bug in

Leopard (we don't know what OS he's using), it could be a camera

issue, is could be a driver issue with KeySpan (assuming he is

using a keyspan controller - we don't know that) it could be an

interaction with some other software that we don't know is running

etc. etc.

Guiding is NOT a simple thing and it's often very difficult to

determine what the issue might be. So it will take at least 3 e-

mails before I even know what his set up is and I really don't see

any need to clutter the list with this back and forth over several

days because of the time difference.

And this is the second time that I have had to bring what is a

support issue and what isn't in 3 years. The first time was when

someone had a registration issue and there is non one here that is

going to solve that sort of problem. And I don't make unlock keys

or other private information public - so there is no way that

should be brought to a yahoo group.

What

good does that do?

How many people have asked for camera advice and have I EVER

refused them or ignored them? How many people had Firmware issues

and I have told them EXACTLY what they need to do? I have NEVER

refused to help anyone.

I am very interested in what Alberto is doing, what

he is experiencing, and how the two of you may resolve the

issue....it

may happen to me and I would then have a resource to refer to rather

than flailing in the wind!

Why not ask him directly? Alberto is a good guy and does nice work.

Personally, I think Milton should re-consider this stance...it is

frustrating and reduces the users reference points for learning to

use

the software to it's fullest potential - and, that is what it is all

about, isn't it? To learn and grow one's interest in

astrophotography?

Actually the only growth Astro IIDC is having is in Microscopy,

which is a very good thing.

Milton J. Aupperle

President

ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

#1005 - 815 14th Avenue. S.W.

Calgary Alberta T2R0N5

1-(403)-229-9456

milton@...