From: "Milton Aupperle" <milton@outcastsoft.com>

Date: January 26, 2008 2:46:57 PM MST

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Astro IIDC, occultation, and time


Hi Ted;


Just to clarify the Time Stamp and ocmment on some of your questions.

Astro IIDC doesn't physically time stamp each frame with a visible

time stamp. The Time stamp is derived by :


1) Using the Mac System clock, get the current time when the first

frame arrives.


2) Measure the duration of each frame since the last frame and record

that information in the movie.


Since we know the duration of each frame in the movie and we know when

the first frame arrived, we can generate the arrival time of every

frame and that gets displayed in the movie if you turn on the Time

Code Track. All our Time Code tracks are recorded using UTC / GMT

time, not Local time os that it's consistent. We do the same thing for

the driver we wrote and sell for the DFG/1394-1 A/D uncompressed

FireWire converter too.


As to the half second accuracy with getting the current Time, I have

never really looked into that part of it, however you can get a

feeling for it sort of information in the console.log window.


For example, I just pulled up the System Preference application (this

is In Tiger), clicked on the Date Time Icon and it printed off this

information :


26 Jan 14:08:02 ntpdate[6390]: adjust time server 17.254.0.28 offset

-0.074806 sec


in the console log window as soon as the Date & Time window opened.

I'm assuming that if you did this right before you began recording,

the starting time would be a lot closer than 0.5 seconds off.


As to the sensitivity of cameras, the LUX sensitivities that companies

claim for their cameras are subjective and generally it's Apples and

Oranges when comparing them. They generally are not directly

comparable. I normally compare the manufacturers response curves for

the actual CCD to see what they rate for sensitivity.


I've used the Low Light Analog cameras (i.e. PC23C, PC-164C, PC182XS

etc.) in the past with a DFG/1394-1 A/D Uncompressed FireWire

converter. with varying degrees of success for astro imaging (I have

examples at the bottom of the pages for 2003 images at:

http://www.outcastsoft.com/AstroImages/AstroIndex.html ). The main

issues I had was that they need to be modded because the Auto Gain

feature causes all sorts of issues (excessive noise and flares) when

trying to image brighter targets and it needed to be disabled, so I

have switched over to non interlaced FireWire CCD Cameras which give

me a lot more control.


The Imaging Source use HAD CCDs so they are about 1/2 the sensitivity

as an EXHAD CCD - based on comparing the actual response curves that

Sony publishes for the CCD.


Point Grey Research manufactures cameras with Bigger CCD pixels (i.e.

Flea or Flea2 640x480 have 7.0 micon pixels, Scorpion are 9.9 micron),

and the bigger the pixel cell, the more sensitive it is. A 7 micron

pixel size has 400% more light gathering than a 3.5 micron CCD will

have. PGR also now offer Grasshopper EXHAD cameras now too, but they

are REALLY expensive though.


With Astro IIDC, a 7 micron or larger Mono CCD and using 2x2 binned or

4x4 binned modes on a C8 or larger aperture, you should be able to

pick up 10th or fainter mag objects at around 1/30th or 1/15th of a

second per frame, like I did in this stacked image:


http://www.outcastsoft.com/AstroImages/SaturnWMoons20070121_MJA.jpg


That was with a Flea Color 7 micron CCD Camera, and you lose about 30

to 50% of the light through the Color Filter Array than what a mono

camera will deliver. Also with mono cameras, don't use a infrared cut

filter and you can capture even more light, as all the mono cameras

see very deep into the IR range too.


Hope Some of this helps..


Milton Aupperle


--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, "Ted" <tjswift@...> wrote:


I'm interested in doing occultation timing, and just learned that

Astro IIDC can time-stamp each frame. This makes me wonder if it might

work for occultation timing, and make the whole setup much simpler and

cheaper (a digital video camera and a laptop, instead of a analog

video camera, GPS clock, time-stamp inserter, video to Firewire

converter, and laptop). My question is: Has anyone figured out how to

synchronize the Mac's clock to NIST or GMT closer than the ~half

second or so we can do over the Net? I'm confident an occultation's

duration could be measured to an accuracy related to the frame rate,

but the occultation's absolute start and stop time would be uncertain

by that ~half second or so.

  I guess another question is: What's the most light-sensitive

Firewire or USB camera that works with Astro IIDC? I just looked up

the DMK 21AF04, and it says its sensitivity is 0.5 lx at 1/30s, with

gain at 20 dB (100x?). Several other cameras look like they're in the

same range. A lot of occultation trackers are using the Supercircuits

pc-164c analog camera, which reads down to 0.0003 lux (though I don't

know how good the signal-to-noise is there). The 164C can make out

stars down to about magnitude 9-11 with a moderate sized scope.

  One hybrid possibility would be to use a low-light analog camera

like the PC-164C, a video-to-firewire converter, and Astro IIDC. Has

anyone tried this kind of thing? Thanks.

-Ted