From: Mark Gaffney <markgaffney@me.com>

Date: January 21, 2010 8:51:50 PM MST

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Astro_IIDC] Re: New AstroIIDC user


Hi Kurt, 

Milton had me a bit worried about this parfocal business. At any rate I`ve asked his opinion of the Baaders..! Telescopes.com is in America & as far as I know there`s no restrictions on International postage for these filters. I may be wrong (it`s generally sprung on you at the last minute when purchasing!)


Mark.

On 22/01/2010, at 2:24 PM, mihalco wrote:

Hi Mark,
I think you're over-analyzing it! ;>)
They're both as parfocal (or not) as the other. This just depends on how well the thickness of the filters is controlled. The current version of either filter is pretty good with the reflections. Another imager I respect, Greg Bradley (also in AU) says the Baaders work pretty well. If the Baaders are significantly less expensive in AU, I'd give them a try.
HTH,
Kurt

--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gaffney <markgaffney@...> wrote:
>
> Well I`ve bookmarked the Astrodon link on the page below to the E
> series 2 filters to look at later-the Baader link is to Orion which is
> no good to me..The questions are; how important is the parfocal factor
> (the Baader link I found eleswhere dosen`t mention this factor.) & how
> compatible are either of the above with the Scorpion 20SO?
>
> Mark.
> On 22/01/2010, at 6:07 AM, Milton Aupperle wrote:
>
> > Hi Kurt;
> >
> >
> > From reading the spec sheet for the Scorpions 1600x1200 CCD, they
> > are likely summing 2 pixels on the horizontal lines and then
> > skipping each second line.
> >
> > So that would explain how they get 2x the brightness and why they
> > only get about 2x the frame rate.
> >
> > Also, if anyone is looking at buying a LRGB filter set, check out:
> >
> > http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3560557/Main/3556671
> >
> > which has some good LRGB curve information for multiple filter
> > vendors.
> >
> > TTYL..
> >
> > On 21-Jan-10, at 11:55 AM, mihalco wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Alan,
> >> Thanks for trying this out! I finally received my FW 800 to 400
> >> adapter, and got the same results. I'm glad this works, as it
> >> makes the camera more interesting for planetary use. I also saw
> >> the 2x increase in senstivity, which is odd, as it should really be
> >> 4x if both rows and columns are binned 2x2. I'll see if I can get
> >> a response from Pt. Grey tech support about what is really going on
> >> here. FWIW, I updated the 20SO camera firmware to 1.1.0.22 (latest
> >> on their website), and everything still seems to work ok. If the
> >> storms would finish, I'd sure like to try this out on Mars...
> >> Regards,
> >> Kurt
> >>
> >> --- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Alan Friedman <alan@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Prompted by Kurt's and Milton's posts, I ran a few tests with my
> >>> Scorpion 20SO (October 2007 build) using the 800x600 8 bit and 16
> >>> bit modes (not format 7). Using a stopwatch to time my captures
> >>> for 10 seconds and setting the fps at 30, the actual capture rate
> >>> measured approximately 25 fps in both 8bit and 16bit modes. The
> >>> field of view at 800x600 is identical to 1600x1200, brightness at
> >>> 800x600 appears 2x that at 1600x1200, suggesting that pixel
> >>> binning is enabled at this setting.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the heads up on this, Kurt. Hoping the clouds pass in
> >>> time to try this setting on Mars near opposition.
> >>>
> >>> best,
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:19 PM, mihalco wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Milton! I'm still waiting on a FW 800 to 400 cable. FWIW,
> >>>> the camera I got was packaged in Aug 2007 and has Firmware
> >>>> 1.0.2.1. The latest firmware on Pt. Grey's website for the
> >>>> Scorpion 20SO is 1.1.0.22, which I'll probably load at some
> >>>> point. I'll report back as soon as I have it up and running on
> >>>> the Mac.
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Kurt
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Milton Aupperle <milton@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kurt;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Two things about frame rate.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It depends on how old your Scorpion is and possibly what
> >>>>> firmware load
> >>>>> it has.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have the 2004 and 2008 Scorpion Tech Ref manuals here in front
> >>>>> of me
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For Fixed modes the 2004 models only run at 15 fps maximum speed
> >>>>> for 8
> >>>>> bit and 7.5 fps for 16 bit at 800x600.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The 2008 models are listed as 30 fps, but there is a foot note
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> says 25 fps. The 25 fps is technically illegal because it
> >>>>> violates the
> >>>>> fixed size frame rate rules which are always set to as 1/2 rate
> >>>>> multiples (i.e. 240, 120, 60, 30, 15, 7.5 etc.). Also, because
> >>>>> it's
> >>>>> not a binned mode, the camera should be limited to what the CCD
> >>>>> clock
> >>>>> rates indicates it's maximum frame rate is is 14.98 fps.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For Variable modes (Format 7), the 2004 models do not support
> >>>>> any of
> >>>>> the binned modes (Format 7, Mode 1 or Format 7,2) which are only
> >>>>> listed in the 2008 manual.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So your frame rate mileage may vary depending on what date of
> >>>>> creation
> >>>>> and what firmware load the camera has.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On a side note, Astro IIDC will likely not allow you to select
> >>>>> 25 fps
> >>>>> as that violates the Fixed Format Spec 1/2 frame rate rules (it
> >>>>> should
> >>>>> be either 30 or 15 fps). However if you check mark the "Adjust
> >>>>> frame
> >>>>> rate for 50Hz light sources to eliminate flicker" item in the
> >>>>> Preferences section (see page 72 of the Astro IIDC help / manual
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> details on what it does) then it may allow 25 fps as a valid
> >>>>> frame rate.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HTH..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Milton Aupperle
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 19-Jan-10, at 8:57 AM, mihalco wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Alan,
> >>>>>> Take a look at the "Standard Image Formats" in this document. You
> >>>>>> will see in the table that the 20SO supports 800 x 600 Y16 and
> >>>>>> Y8 at
> >>>>>> 30fps (really 25fps per the Scorpion Technical Ref Manual).
> >>>>>> This is
> >>>>>> not one of the Partial Image formats (mode 7) in the following
> >>>>>> table, which I agree max out at 21 fps. I'm using Pt. Grey's
> >>>>>> FlyCap2 program from their SDK on a PC which does run the 20SO at
> >>>>>> these resolution, bit depth and frame rate. Since I think you
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>> this same camera, how about trying it out with AstroIIDC in
> >>>>>> Format
> >>>>>> 1, Mode 6 (800 x 600 Y16), and Format 1, Mode 2 (800 x 600 Y8)
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> see what you get?
> >>>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>> Kurt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Alan Friedman <alan@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Kurt,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Per PGR's specification sheet for the scorpion, the frame rate
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> the 20SO with ROI selection max's out at 21 fps:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.ptgrey.com/support/downloads/documents/Scorpion%20Getting%20Started%20Manual.pdf
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Your capture software might allow a faster setting to be
> >>>>>>> selected,
> >>>>>>> but if you try timing a capture and counting the frames, I think
> >>>>>>> you will find the actual frame rate to be in line with these
> >>>>>>> specifications.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> best,
> >>>>>>> Alan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Milton J. Aupperle
> >>>>> President
> >>>>> ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting
> >>>>> Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist
> >>>>> #1106 - 428 Chaparral Ravine View SE.
> >>>>> Calgary Alberta T2X 0N2
> >>>>> 1-(403)-453-1624
> >>>>> milton@
> >>>>> www.outcastsoft.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Milton J. Aupperle
> > President
> > ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting
> > Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist
> > #1106 - 428 Chaparral Ravine View SE.
> > Calgary Alberta T2X 0N2
> > 1-(403)-453-1624
> > milton@...
> > www.outcastsoft.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>