From: "milton_aupperle" <milton@outcastsoft.com>

Date: February 13, 2010 5:14:04 PM MST

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: guiding..M 42 etc.


Mark;


The log shows you've got really horrific polar alignment. Your drifting at a rate of about 160 pixels over a 7.5 minute time span. Assuming I deciphered your messages correctly, your using the 0.3 focal reducer, so each pixel is about 3 arc seconds and means your drifting about 50 arc seconds per minute. No wonder your having issues with finding objects or keeping stars in the field of view.


You have two (possibly 3) tasks the next time your out you that need to achieve before you should try imaging anything (even the sun or the moon are likely impossible).


1) Get the Camera and Finder Scope pointing to the same object. I don't care if you do this on a star, the moon or some object 100 meters away. Each time you rotate the camera, or add / remove any optical items you need to re-do this. Once this is done right you can do your alignment stars with the mount, at least you can put them in the Cameras center using the Finder Scope if they are off somewhat.


2) Learn how to focus. Your not coming close to sharp focus at all. You should likely do this in the day time or at dusk on a distant terrestrial object so that the motors or polar alignment are not distracting factors. Make a paper target with lines or circles and stick it on a building or tree. Practice getting the camera in focus, because your badly out of focus on what you shot last night. Part of this could be because your scope is poorly collimated, I don't know.


3) Now that your able to find a star in the finder scope and get it into the camera FOV in focus, you need to get the mount polar aligned. This involves physically adjusting the azimuth and altitude knobs on the mount. It has nothing to do with picking 1 or 4 or 30 alignment stars with the hand controller. I prefer doing drift alignment but perhaps you like using the polar scope and angles. I don't care how you do it, but it has to be done properly. You'll need to use the scope at Prime focus, so steps 1 and 2 will be critical to you achieving this, because if you can't find a star, then you can't do it. And properly means that you can put a star on the Reticule Cross hairs of Astro IIDC and leave it for 5 minutes without significant (less than around 10 arc seconds) upwards or downward drift unguided.


Until you have these 3 basic things mastered, your wasting your time with filter wheels, guiding and imaging.


HTH..


Milton Aupperle


--- In Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gaffney <markgaffney@...> wrote:


Milton,

      I opened the text file first but thought you`d get a basic idea  

from the snapshot. I WILL send it to you when I`ve finished responding  

on group here. The idea was that I`d economise by sending the same  

email to you as the one to the group because our internet has reached  

that dodgy part of the month. I know you`re the only one who usually  

responds & that you probably would appreciate the "nitty gritty" full  

information professionally but I thought others might be interested in  

what I was up to!

    I should enter declination of both object being guided on (object  

being imaged) & object being used as guide star, from what you`ve told  

me some time ago but I couldn`t remember which entry was which when it  

came to the crunch! I wasn`t in effect really guiding anything just  

getting a basic feel for the set-up & controls!

   I have 2 cameras at my disposal at present, the Scorpion 20SO & my  

DBK 21A ( The Flea 2 which I HAVE acquired star images with is on a  

round trip to Canada, hopefully, to have it`s glass cover looked at by  

PGR on warranty).

    I only used one reducer at a time getting better results with the  

Mogg 0.3 than the Antares f 6.3 & one camera at a time. I didn`t use  

the Antares f6.3 with the Scorpion though( having removed the Antares  

by this time & replaced it with the Scorpion equipped with the Mogg)  

Sorry if this wasn`t clear enough! I heeded your advice & didn`t use  

the CRG OAG at all..

   I`ve tried to explain that I can`t use the Scorpion simultaneously  

with another camera at present anyway..(The iBook has only the one FW  

port & the repeater I have needs a new cable which I`ll buy this week  

hopefully!) I could use my Mac Mini for one of the tasks but set-up of  

two computers was too complicated for this initial trial run..

    Wouldn`t it be the case that with a 2 minute exposure, the  

stars`d be elongated anyway even polar aligned as they were? I could  

have another go at "All Star" polar alignment though, weather  

permitting.. (I notice, on my iPod, there`s supposedly a bank of cloud  

rolling in here on the "Skippy" sky site Terry has sent me-I haven`t  

looked at the weather site I have yet, for a forecast.. ) PA wasn`t as  

perfect when I did it last time as I usually get it in "Display Align"  

afterwards but I thought the idea was to have it "out" somewhat in RA  

anyway to give the autoguider something to sink it`s teeth into?


Mark.

On 14/02/2010, at 7:33 AM, Milton Aupperle wrote:


Mark;



On 13-Feb-10, at 8:45 AM, Mark Gaffney wrote:



I then connected the GPUSB, centred Betelgeuse using the reticle in

Astro IIDC & tried some very inexperienced guiding. Basically I left

the settings as they were already, callibrated, then began tracking.

The star drifted below the reticle gradually & I left it running for

several minutes. Here`s the log..


You might want to try reading the manual first (see page 16 for  

starters) because you did not event turn on Declination Calibration  

or Guiding, just RA only. The log indicates this, the Guide sheet  

window SHOWS this. That's why it did not even try correct anything  

on the vertical, because you didn't tell it to when you calibrated  

(Dec : No Calibration).


Secondly, that isn't the log, that's a single page screen snap shot  

image The log is a text file with multiple pages and one can open in  

Apples Text Edit and scroll through it. Do not bother sending it to  

the list because Yahoo will screw it up. You should do as other  

people do and send LOGS as files to me directly using our support e- 

mail address.


Thirdly, if it drifts out of the field of view that fast at that  

short a focal length (your likely at around F 1 with the doubles  

focal reducers), then your polar alignment is completely whacked.


That would explain why your having so much trouble finding objects.



After that I tried slewing to M 42 again & without adjusting with the

finder took a 2 minute & a couple of 4 minute exposures (I got the

darks a bit confused with the 4 minute ones though..) Here`s the

result with the 2 minute one. I was pleased I got some sort of

nebulousity showing this time;


Your stars are completely out of focus faint blobs and elongated in  

the vertical axis. That likely means your polar alignments is  

completely off, likely on the horizontal axis, but it's hard to tell.