From: Milton Aupperle <milton@outcastsoft.com>

Date: August 30, 2011 11:28:40 AM MDT

To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Astro_IIDC] Slightly OT larger format camera

Hi Raye;

On 30-Aug-11, at 11:14 AM, Ray Byrne wrote:

Hi Milton,

Being a USB camera would it still work with Astro IIDC?

Point Grey Research USB 2 and USB 3 cameras will work with Astro IIDC. I have quite a few customer using the Chameleon and FireFly USB 2 models and have done some custom projects where we were running eleven USB 2 cameras at the same time off a single Desktop Mac.

Other USB 2 / 3 Cameras will not work, as it says in our FAQ section:

http://www.outcastsoft.com/ASCASTROIIDC.html#FAQ

---------------- These are all answers from our FAQ section of the Astro IIDC Web Site ---------------

Does Astro IIDC work with the DFG/1394-1 converter or USB Cameras from The Imaging Source, Lumenera and other Astronomy, Microscopy or Machine Vision companies?

No. Astro IIDC only works with IIDC Cameras, which follow the open IIDC camera protocol. By following this robust industrial certified standard, Astro IIDC can support dozens of manufacturers and hundred if not thousands of compliant cameras. Almost all higher end USB cameras use manufacturer specific proprietary non standard protocols for camera control. This means we would need to have the company provide us with low level technical information (which most will not do like The Imaging Source) and then write specific code for each manufacturer and in some cases each camera. The Mac market place is simply too tiny to make it cost effective to support all these non standard proprietary USB cameras. Note that the IIDC camera protocol can be carried over other delivery systems, which is why we now support the Point Grey Research Chameleon and FireFly MV USB 2 cameras and we can likely support the new USB 3 Flea 3 cameras when they become available.

Why are you not supporting The Imaging Source USB Cameras?

We have asked TIS multiple times (the most recent was in April 2011) if they will provide us with the low level details of how to control their cameras. They have either said "we will get back to you" (and never do) or simply ignored our e-mails. We frankly do not recommend their cameras anymore and you will get a much more capable and cheaper camera by going with Point Grey Research's USB 2 or FireWire cameras.

My Intel Mac has no FireWire ports and is a non expandable "Steve Jobs iToaster", is there anything I can do?

The only USB 2 or 3 cameras supported are the FireFly MV and Chameleon from Point Grey Research, which follow the IIDC Protocol. If you want lots of camera choices, you need FireWire. You should avoid Macs that either lack FireWire ports or are non expandable and lack a PC34 expansion slot. If you only purchase Macs that have FireWire, then Apple will get the message that FireWire is an essential feature. This will effect sales of future Macs and they will be forced to add it back in, so Vote with your Wallet. You can also tell Apple they are going down the wrong path here.

Does Astro IIDC work with the GigaE Ethernet Cameras?

Again, no. Astro IIDC only works with IIDC Cameras, which follow the open IIDC camera protocol. Secondly, it is VERY unlikely you will ever see Giga-E on the Mac. To get the full frame rate and I/O control of Giga-E, it usually require a special Giga Ethernet card. The stock GigaBit controller that Apple ships is not up to the task. Since only the highest end Macs have an expansion slots (PCI-E Express or PC 34 ExpressCard) which Apple sells the fewest models of per year, the economics of writing Ethernet drivers for them and then developing Giga-E drivers makes Giga-E prohibitively expensive. And given Apple's direction in their products designs (no FireWire 3200, no USB 3, no Ethernet and no Expansion Slots), it's unlikely that any expansion options will be offered in the future models. If you want to use GigaE Cameras, you'll have to go Windows with a cheap Non Mac PC that has expansions slots.

HTH..

Milton aupperle

ATB

Ray

On 30 Aug 2011, at 17:27, Milton Aupperle wrote:

Hi Raye;

You might also want to look at their Chameleon USB2 camera too.

http://www.ptgrey.com/products/chameleon/index.asp

The mono versions deliver up to 1296x964 @ 18 fps, 8 / 16 bit and is

priced at $375 USD.

In cropped 640x480 hardware ROI the best I got was 30 fps in 16 bit

or 8 bit.

At 1280x960 size I get 15 fps.

You get 8 or 16 bit video in, hardware ROI, GPIO functionality for ST4

port control or arbitrary long exposures and temperature monitoring too.

HTH..

Milton Aupperle

On 30-Aug-11, at 3:44 AM, Ray Byrne wrote:

> Hi Guys,

> I'm considering buying a larger format camera for Lunar/Solar use.

> I've missed the boat on PG Scorpions I expect, any other

> suggestions?. BTW I currently use a DMK21af04

> ATB

> Ray

Milton J. Aupperle

President

ASC - Aupperle Services and Contracting

Mac Software (Drivers, Components and Application) Specialist

#1106 - 428 Chaparral Ravine View SE.

Calgary Alberta T2X 0N2

1-(403)-453-1624

milton@outcastsoft.com