From: Paul Gaylord <pgaylord@cox.net>
Date: August 23, 2014 5:14:39 PM MDT
To: Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Astro_IIDC] 22 Aug 2914 1540 UTC AR2146 C6.2 Flare
Milton,
Re the Firewire 800 port:
Am using it, rectangular connector with a slight indent on one of the long sides, matches the camera connector. Even tried a different cable that I have thats shorter, same results....
And yes, I have both a 400 and a 800 port.
Here's an extract from my capture log (I deleted the serno):
=================== File:20140822_084031_L.mov #frames 171
Monochrome Camera = Model:'Grasshopper Express GX-FW-60S6M' SerialNumber: xxxxxx
IIDC Format:7 Mode: 0 ClrCode: 5 MaxFps: 6.06 MaxPacketSize: 9080
Camera Display Format: 2736 x 2192 16 bit
CCD Image Left: 0
CCD Image Top: 0
CCD Image Width: 2736
CCD Image: Height 2192
Gamma: 1.00
Brightness: 453
Black Point: 0
Exposure: 12.00 ms
Sharpness Limiting On: 0
Dark Frame Subtraction On: 0
Flat Frame Correction On: 1
Invert Image On: 0
Flip Horizontal On: 0
Flip Vertical On: 0
Histogram Expand On: 0
Binning Off Monochrome
Hot / Cold Pixel Replace: Off
Camera Temp: 51.5 C / 124.7 F
I have 170 frames set to be captured, I see 171, so I know it was a good capture. and the MaxFps: is at 6.06. I did figure out that it was the max possible if everything worked correctly.
Thanks for the Quicktime v7 hint. I'll put it on the laptop. Just for info, v10.0 is on my desktop, and I actually x-fer the movies to watch on it for a quick-check before processing. Muck better than the laptop.
By the way, I never save the converted movies after viewing them.
Thanks much,
Paul
On Aug 23, 2014, at 3:31 PM, Milton Aupperle maupperl@gmail.com [Astro_IIDC] wrote:
Hi Paul;
Thanks for the info. I have pretty much the same laptop, except its as 2010 model with a much slower 5400 rpm hard drive and dual core i7 Laptop. You are connecting the camera on the FireWire 800 port too, right? If I recall right, the 2008 model had both FW400 and FW800 ports, mine only has a FW 800 port.
If your running in 16 bit mode, the frame rate will usually be half of the stated maximum (twice the bit depth means 1/2 the frame rate). So the best your going to get at full frame size is about 5.5 fps. The 12 bit option maybe or may not increase the frame rate. Without getting too technical, it depends on packet size and number of lines of video it can stuff in each packet. Quality wise, it will not make much difference between 12 bit and 16 bit.
You can stop the painful movie opening issue by not using Apples "QuickTime Player" and switch to the older "QuickTime 7 Player" app:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3678
That will eliminate the slow and idiotic conversion process each time you try to view a movie in Mavericks. You need to tell the Finder to only open movies in "QuickTime 7 Player" so that when you double click, it only opens them with that.
That may also be why the frame rate is low too. Apple likely is applying a fixed frame rate conversion on the video, therefore it might pigeon hole it into known frame rates like 3.75 instead of 5.5 fps etc. So when you check the fps info, it might be the converted version instead of the real version.
If you check the capture log that Astro IIDC creates for each movie image (i.e. "CAP_date_time.txt) the first two lines for each captured movie/ image will look something like this:
=================== File:20140227_022410_U.mov #frames 10
Monochrome Camera = Model:'Grasshopper2 GS2-FW-14S5M' SerialNumber: 0xA94B07
IIDC Format:7 Mode: 8 ClrCode: 5 MaxFps: 6.29 MaxPacketSize: 2256
etc. etc.
The second line after the "=================== File" indicates what Format, mode and other info you are capturing at, like:
IIDC Format:7 Mode: 8 ClrCode: 5 MaxFps: 6.29 MaxPacketSize: 2256
The key thing there is the "MaxFps:" value, which indicates the theoretical maximum frame rate the camera can run at in this Format, mode and Hardware ROI. You might want to try and grab some short movie clips of grab frames and see what that value changes to as you switch from 8, 12 or 16 bit - to optimize the capture rate.
Hope this helps..
Milton
On 2014-08-23, at 3:27 PM, "Paul Gaylord pgaylord@cox.net [Astro_IIDC]" <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Thanks for your all's comments.
Had just added another image to the Sun folder, the first one that the flare showed up in, then checked my mail after reviewing it.
So, Milton,
Thanks for catching my typo, I've now gone back and fixed all the images that I messed up the camera model on. As usual, I've got to mess something up....
I've been running 16-bit capture for everything, I've always wondered whether there'd be any difference in running 8 or 12 bit to gain FPS versus final image quality, but, don't have the experience.
As far as my laptop, it's a:
17" MacBook Pro 4.1
Late 2008
Intel Core 2 Duo
2.5 GHz
4 GB ram (it came with it)
128 GB SSD (the same one that it came with.
OS X v10.9.4
Quicktime v10.3
Spotlight is disabled on it (at least I think so, I put the SSD in the Privacy tab of Spotlight).
I just verified that "Prevent App Nap" is check-marked in Get Info.
I even shut off the the Wireless E-Net
I always keep the wireless BlueTooth off.
Only have Astro IIDC running, no other app's are running.
Usually have one or two Finder windows open.
As far as my Astro IIDC settings:
I leave "At Up To: " Best FPS selected.
At "Camera FPS", (full frame example, 16-bit mode, saving to ram disk) I'll start at 7.5. If I see lines or scrambled video, I'll drop it it 3.75. If not, I'll run a test capture of 100 frames, then wait for the painful Quicktime "converting" and see whether it will eventually open the movie, or the Quicktime Inspector window comes up with a 0 FPS or someother value. I do the same process when saving to the SSD, but expect frame rates of 1/2 to 3/4 of the ram disk.
While I waiting for Quicktime to do it's thing, I'm checking the Astro IIDC capture log text for #frames. Example, it I'm doing a 100 frame capture, I expect #frames to be at 101. When I see that, I'll expect everything went well when I finally get to checkout Quicktime. If the # frame is less, I wait for Quicktime to finish to see if I get a 0 FPS or lines through the video or something else. Any weirdness, and I drop the the "Camera FPS:" down until everything works as expected.
I even shut off the histogram, and usually only have the "Flat Frame" function turned on if I see that I need it.
I looked at the exposure and for one of my captures is was at 12ms in the txt log.
Brightness was at 453.
Sometimes I think that maybe I ought to buy one of those new MacBook Pro's and a thunderbolt-firewire adapter, but am scared. I see from Alan F's response that it seems doable. But with my luck, I just don't know...
Sorry that this turned into a novel.
Thanks again for your interest,
Paul
On Aug 23, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Alan Friedman alan@greatarrow.com [Astro_IIDC] wrote:
I’ve not experienced any problems running the 2MP or 6MP Grasshopper cameras through the thunderbolt-firewire adapter on my new 13” MacBook Pro.
Alan
On Aug 23, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Milton Aupperle maupperl@gmail.com [Astro_IIDC] <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi Paul;
Nice catch. And congratulations on retiring too :)
A couple of questions on your set up.
I can't find any reference to the "GX-FW-60S1M-C" at all. The closest
PGR Express camera to that would be "GX-FW-60S6M-C" - which does match
your indicated CCD and frame sizes.
Also, you should easily be able to capture 8 bit 2736 x 2192 frames
in Format 7 mode at ~11 fps to an internal SSD. That only amounts to
about 62.9 megabytes per second recording to disk, and pretty much any
fairly modern Mac (i.e. 2010 on) with a stock 7200 rpm Hard Drive
should be able to keep up. Even If you are running the camera in 16
bit mode, you would get ~5.5 fps max rate. So I don't know why you
need to go to a memory drive is a baffling.
Lastly what Mac OSX version and Mac model are you using? The only
frame rate limitations might be if your using a Thunderbolt to
FireWire adapter (I am not sure how well they perform, how much stress
Apple actually put them under for testing or how closely they follow
the Spec - they are barely compliant with power draw) and / or running
Mavericks with it idiotic "App Nap" enabled - which cripples all real
time performance applications. Unless an App is playing audio, Apple
knee caps the performance of it using "App Nap" (an all threads too) -
which you have to turn off in the "Info" window for an App using the
Finder.
Thanks for sharing..
Milton J. Aupperle
206 - 6414 Travois Place NW
Calgary Alberta T2K 3T2
Phone: 403-453-1624
maupperl@gmail.com
http://www3.telus.net/maupperl
On 23-Aug-14, at 12:15 PM, Paul Gaylord pgaylord@cox.net [Astro_IIDC]
wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been a long time for me to post anything, let alone be doing
> amateur astro....
> Been retired since December, so hopefully I can start getting out
> more!
>
> Anyway, since July, I've been practicing with my new (used) Lunt
> LS100THa and new PGR camera.
>
> Discovered that I had captured the flare. The gif is terrible, I
> used some frames that I should have trashed (along with the far
> worse ones) but, it's my first flare, so I'm kind of jazzed up about
> it.
>
> Link:
>
> http://www.astropg.com/amateur_astronomy/solar_system/the_sun/201408221540utcflare.html
>
> TinyURL for just-in-case:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/oljt2pz
>
>
> There's more solar images that I've taken between Jul and now in the
> Sun section (right arrow at top right or menu to the left of it) in
> case your interested.
>
> Thanks for looking,
> Paul
Milton J. Aupperle
206 - 6414 Travois Place NW
Calgary Alberta T2K 3T2
Phone: 403-453-1624
http://www3.telus.net/maupperl/astroimages/astroindex.html