From: Stephen Ramsden <sramsden@natca.net>
Date: May 24, 2015 5:42:29 PM MDT
To: "Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com" <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Astro_IIDC] IR Cut Filter Necessary?
I have not heard of anyone being able to use a USB three camera with Astro I I DC.
I have used almost every PGR FireWire camera successfully with Astro I I DC. If you don't mind FireWire 400, the PGR scorpion
Camera is what a lot of us used exclusively a few years back. It is available for super cheap on eBay these days if you can find one. It's a 1600 x 1200 chip.
From my iPhone (sorry if it's short)
Stephen W. Ramsden
Director
Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
404-543-7616
On May 24, 2015, at 5:37 PM, Kevin in Fort Davis fsm79734@gmail.com [Astro_IIDC] <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi Stephen, I'm very glad to hear that information, especially because
of the three PGR USB3 cameras I was considering, the Grasshopper was
at the top of the list. As far as you know, has anyone in your forum
attempted to use Astro IIDC with the other USB3 camera that PGR
currently sells (Blackfly, Flea3, or Chameleon3)? I have a support
question in with PGR, as Milton had suggested, inquiring about the
minimum frame rate that those cameras can use, and whether they can
run at USB2 speeds. I don't expect to hear anything back from them
until early next week.
I value your experience, as well as the members of your forum and the
Astro IIDC forum, because they are more likely to have the knowledge
regarding which PGR cameras will work well (or at all) with Astro
IIDC. I'm not going to get that information from PGR. I think
they've tried to help me out as much as they can, but as they have
pointed out, they are not knowledgeable with astronomical imaging in
general.
If I find that PGR's USB3 cameras aren't going to work for our
application, then I'm going to need to consider their Firewire cameras
and what changes I can make to our setup that will ameliorate the
issue I'm having with FW800 bandwidth. We've had good luck in general
with their Flea3 FW800 2MP cameras, bandwidth issues notwithstanding.
To open another can of worms, what other camera manufacturers should I
be considering? Any camera I purchase should be known to work well
for solar H-alpha imaging and play nicely with Astro IIDC, be around a
1/2" chip, and around 2 megapixels in resolution.
Thanks!
-Kevin Mace
McDonald Observatory Visitors Center
On 5/23/15, Stephen Ramsden sramsden@natca.net [Astro_IIDC]
<Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> I hate to even break in here but in case you didnt know…
> I run a forum at http://solarchat.natca.net where we have about 20-25
> people currently using the USB3 grasshoppers for solar imaging. They are
> all PC users as I am the only Mac user on there I think, but some of them
> may have tried it on a Mac. I have heard no one find anything that could
> run these cameras in native Mac. Unfortunately.
>
>
> Milton’s absence has set back solar astronomy years and has virtually
> eliminated the chance of getting most people under 40 interested in it…(as
> they all use Macs)
>
> Stephen W. Ramsden
> Nonprofit 501c3 Director
> Atlanta, GA - United States of America
> sramsden@solarastronomy.org
> 404-543-7616
> www.solarastronomy.org
>
>
>
>> On May 23, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Kevin in Fort Davis fsm79734@gmail.com
>> [Astro_IIDC] <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for those great suggestions, Milton. The FW800 hub I'm currently
>> using is this one:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/NitroAV-8-Port-FireWire-Professional-Repeater/dp/B00506K4NC
>> <http://www.amazon.com/NitroAV-8-Port-FireWire-Professional-Repeater/dp/B00506K4NC>
>>
>> and its power supply is rated at 12V/3A. When I first started having the
>> FW bandwidth issue (everything worked fine for nearly two years before
>> this problem developed), I tried swapping in the exact Kramer hub that you
>> mentioned, with the same result. I've also replaced all the cabling end to
>> end.
>>
>> I have not tried running the cameras at 1624x1224 8bit. Will the image
>> quality not suffer at 8 bit? I will try that as soon as it stops pouring
>> rain.
>>
>> I will ask PGR if their USB3 cameras can run at USB2 speeds and what the
>> minimum frame rate is. Unless I've missed it, they only specify a "frame
>> rate" which is presumably the fastest frame rate.
>>
>> -Kevin
>>
>> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Milton Aupperle maupperl@gmail.com
>> <mailto:maupperl@gmail.com> [Astro_IIDC] <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kevin;
>>
>>
>> On 2015-05-22, at 11:46 AM, Kevin in Fort Davis fsm79734@gmail.com
>> <mailto:fsm79734@gmail.com> [Astro_IIDC] <Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Astro_IIDC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Milton, I probably should have included more detailed information as to
>>> why I'm considering PGR USB3 cameras. It's not for USB3 frame rate, but
>>> rather to get the to PGR cameras with larger physical chip sizes. We
>>> need the image coming from the Lunt telescope to be full-disk, and it's
>>> not quite full-disk with the PGR USB2 Chameleon and Firefly 1/3" CCD
>>> cameras. We need the chip size to be closer to 1/2". We have two PGR
>>> FW800 2MP Flea3 cameras with which we've been quite happy, and we use
>>> those to show white light and hi-mag H-alpha views of the Sun. However,
>>> because of the physical setup in the dome, our cable lengths are pretty
>>> long (4.5m from cameras to FW800 hub, then another meter to the
>>> computer), so it's sometimes a challenge for both cameras to be
>>> recognized at the same time - presumably because of the long cables.
>>> Thus, I'm afraid of adding yet another FW800 camera and long cable on the
>>> same bus. We could restructure the physical layout of the electronics in
>>> the dome, but with long focus 6" and 4" refractors, the cables by
>>> necessity have to be pretty long to allow for all slewing angles.
>>>
>>
>> A couple of things you can try.
>>
>> 1) Is the FW Hub powered or not? And if not, have you tried powering it?
>> Some hubs do not pass through full amperage and in edge cases you could
>> wind up with the cameras just barely working - which would make it flakey.
>> Also check to see what the voltage and wattage the power adapter delivers
>> is adequate for those FW Cameras (it should be 12 volts and at least 2.5
>> watts per camera, so around 0.5 to 1.0 amp will be fine for 2 cameras).
>>
>> 2) The maximum a FW 800 Cable should be is 4.5 meter when running at 800
>> mbps. Unless the FW Hub has repeater properties (basically amplifying the
>> signal), the drop in signal could be part of the problem. Something like
>> this:
>>
>> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/431602-REG/Kramer_VS_30FW_VS30FW_3_Port_FireWire_800_Repeater_Hub.html
>> <http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/431602-REG/Kramer_VS_30FW_VS30FW_3_Port_FireWire_800_Repeater_Hub.html>
>>
>> might solve that issue. That would also give you a little more freedom in
>> configuration too, as you could go to 4.5 meters from camera to the Hub
>> and 4.5 meters from the hub to the computer too.
>>
>> 3) Have you checked that your cables are good? A bad cable with an
>> intermittent short can cause all sorts of weird issues.
>>
>> 4) If your running the 1624 x 1224 FW 800 cameras at 7.5 fps in 8 bit, you
>> should be able to run three or four of them off the same bus without any
>> problem. If you got to 15 fps or 16 bit per pixel, you will only be able
>> to run 2, there won't be enough bandwidth.
>>
>> As far as cameras go, I would stick with USB 2 or FireWire 800. The issue
>> with is USB3 is that the camera may not run because it has minimum frame
>> rate speeds and might not be able to transfer frames fast enough over
>> USB2. PGR would have a better idea as to if their USB 3 cameras will run
>> at USB 2 speeds or not.
>>
>> HTH..
>>
>> Milton Aupperle
>>
>>
>>
>>
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